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okay I
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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gatri
that the British state may soon cease to
exist lose half of its land mass and
much of its luster is a pretty big story
getting remarkably little coverage in
2014 most people thought the question of
Scottish separation had been settled
albe it by just 55 to 4 5% in the
independence referendum certainly the
Scottish government had been at pains to
say that this was a referendum which
would not be repeated for a generation
everything comes around more quickly
nowadays a generation turned out to be a
couple of short football seasons and the
SNP government is currently Consulting
on Indie ref 2 the approximate cause of
the second in a generation referenda is
brexit for which anything from leaves on
the line to a shortage of mar might is
blamed Scotland voted to remain in the
European Union the Scottish government
wants to leave the British Union to join
the European joining us now is our
Caledonian correspondent a lawyer and a
regular contributor to the Royal and
ancient Scottish newspaper the Scotsman
he's Robert McGregor sometimes known as
Rob Roy at least by me Robert thanks for
joining us let's deal with the obvious
contradiction between what Alex Ammon
was saying throughout the 2014
referendum that this is the last chance
for a
generation and now beginning last year
in 2016 Consulting on a on a second
referendum on the face of it that just
won't wash well interestingly you
mentioned Alex salmon I actually think
it's Alex sammon that's maybe pushing
nicar studing for this referendum it's
an important point to make that nicar
ston has only been the leader in the
first min
for just over two years so I think
sturgeon was playing a long game she
wanted to wait until she knew she would
definitely win the next referendum
because if she loses another one the S
SMP lose another one that is it finished
for a generation um before when they had
the referendum in
2014 the akiri hill was a currency issue
wanting to leave the state but still
using the currency and still relying on
their Bank as a lender of Last Resort
this time I think they've got two Air's
H one they've still got the currency
issue but actually in fact it's more
challenging this thing because now
you've got one state wanting to leave
the EU one state wanting to remain so
the idea that you use the same currency
and you use the same bank as a lender of
Last Resort is is fantasy stuff to be
honest with you but the second is he is
actually the economic H circumstances in
Scotland at the moment if you look at
what's happening just now with the oil
price compared to the white paper and
the white papers quote in
2014 it has fallen uh dramatically and
this is having an adverse impact in so
many areas of the Scottish economy if
you look at growth it is a third a third
of what the UK averages if you look at
housing it's half what the UK average is
and also recent figures have shown that
unemployment is actually past the 5
point it's up in Scotland and down in
England it's up the financial times says
it it's up at
5.1% the other day so things are not
looking good economically for a
referendum and I think that Nic sturgeon
has been boxed into this I think her
party I think Alex salmon I mean only
about a month ago Alex salmon gave a
date for the referendum before Nicholas
sturgeon even said she was going to have
one yeah so I think she's going to have
one because she's almost got no choice
because they've been constantly
threatening this all through brexit all
all through the
negotiations and you know only a fool
would predict who's definitely going to
win but if they thought it was a
challenge saying it in 20 14 on the the
economics well it's nothing compared to
at the moment well that that's uh also
my view which would be a reason not to
have the referendum and I'm not as
convinced as you that it will definitely
happen because of the reasons you've
mentioned plus this additional one
although the additional one merely
exacerbates the point you've already
made if Scotland became an independent
country and applied to join the European
Union first they'd need to get in second
they would need to as all new members
must adopt the Euro y uh but only if
they met the convergence Criterion for
being in the Euro which would require a
massive Wipeout of Scotland's budget
deficit which means effectively the
abolition of almost all public services
in Scotland I think that would be a hard
sell in itself
but here's the rub in a country with 5%
unemployment you're going to be in the
EU which allows free movement of
European labor that's right so every
Bulgarian in Bulgaria could come and
live in Scotland and compete for the
jobs that are already in scarce Supply
yeah that's a gigantic ask I don't know
many Scottish people that would vote for
that well yeah the GDP is a massive is
colossal it's over 9% at the moment
double in fact I think it might be
actually treble what the UK is at the
moment um the currency issue was a big
factor the last time and I think it's
going to be even bigger Factor this time
I don't think they're going to try and
sell the pound I think they're going to
have to adopt a new currency whether
it's a pound or or something else so
neither the pound nor the Euro no I
think if they try and sell the Euro I
think they will be defeated and it will
be a bigger margin than last time
because I don't think Scots fancy the
Euro at the moment and we need to
remember just as well the Euro the whole
Euro Zone and European Union is not
looking too healthy at all at the moment
you've got right when governments coming
up and hungry uh and France NE Italy the
EU might might actually fall apart
before Scotland got a chance to join it
so in five years time we don't know what
the position will be in the European
Union you know I actually think this is
going to be win or lost on the no s side
are actually the the remain site the
last time although they
won it was too negative they were fear
mongering constantly and I think they're
going to have to an adopt a different
strategy I think we can definitely win
the minds of the Scottish people based
on what we've spoke about the economics
but we need to win the hearts to be
honest with you to win this and to lead
this referendum I actually think they
should go out within the political
I don't think they should get the leader
of the Scottish labor or leader of the
Scottish conservatives I think they need
someone from the captains of industry
heads of trade unions heads of Charities
and they need to get people involved who
are actually not solely political good
point uh just before we leave the
currency Scotland once had an ancient
currency called the gro I don't know if
the SNP would fancy bringing that back
but you can't just pluck a currency out
of thin air you know you can't it's not
Monopoly uh you can't just uh say right
we're minting a new currency it has to
be based on something what would a
Scottish independent currency be based
on well this is the thing I don't think
they've actually I don't think it's
feasible at all to actually start up a
new currency set up your own bank and
have a lender of R yeah not not one that
would have any credibility
internationally no no I mean the the
bank of uh of the the white Heather club
would not actually get much credit from
people uh abroad in my opinion what they
might do is they might actually H try
and sell that we will still use the
pound even if they don't even if the
bank of England say no and try and sell
that we will go in the Euro eventually
or perhaps looking at options because we
need to remember the SNP what we know is
when the referendum comes they are very
well organized very out and they've
always got good strategies in winning oh
they're a formidable political machine
let me turn to to the political machines
the SNP are exactly as you just
described them and Nicholas ston is uh
quite an impressive uh uh leader um the
Scottish conservative party are making a
comeback uh the Tor vote is up
everywhere and they are the second party
in the country now for someone like me
almost impossible to believe I was in
Parliament when there were zero Tor MPS
at all from Scotland then there was one
taxi form um the the Scottish labor
party is in a state of really collapse
it's uh its vote is has collapsed its
membership has collapsed and its leader
I mean is she even there she's she's
certainly not impinging on on my
Consciousness this old despite J
the Westminister well he hasn't traveled
has he I mean Jeremy Corbin hasn't
translated into Scot this is what I
don't understand it is is depressing at
the moment for the Scottish labor party
the last time I checked the polls they
were sitting at
15% in the local council elections this
means complete obliteration in the
council
elections I think KZ Dale has made some
blunders there's absolutely no question
about that at all I think when she come
out against
Corbin on his leadership contest against
Owen Smith was bizarre because everyone
knew Corbin was going to win that
election you know there was no way that
Owen Smith was going to win so I think
she have just held back and said I will
support whoever wins it because what
that's happened is it's created a not
even a semi detach but it's all it's
created a sort of detached UK and
Scottish labor party exactly that's how
it looked like and we need they need to
work in harmony with each other they
need to be singing from the same H sheet
now don't get me wrong the last H
Scottish election I thought Scottish
labor were quite courageous and I
thought kesa dugdale's policy of raising
taxes to reduce inequality was a good
move but recently they've started
discussing talking about a new federal
people's convention I think that is
playing straight into the hands of the
SNP because the MP want Scottish labor
talking about the Constitution they want
them talking about more Powers they want
them discussing London Edinburgh both
parliaments I think Scottish labor need
to stick on the NHS they need to stick
on policies which will try and reduce
inequality and when we're just talking
about inequality there only this week
there was a report that came out and
this is staggering
that 1% of the wealthy of Scots
own more wealth than the bottom 50% of
Scots now to try and the snp's been in
for the past 10 years in government and
there's this myth that somehow they're
Progressive or should I dare even say
socialist and I think that report really
illuminates the inequality in Scotland
at the moment Rob Roy McGregor you'll be
back we'll be back thanks for joining us
on the Sputnik coming up next civilian
massacre in the Ukraine does anybody
care don't miss
it welcome back to Sputnik the NATO
organized coup which overthrew the
elected president of the Ukraine Set
Fire to the Parliament and set Nazi
Marchers in their hundreds of thousands
onto the streets was bound to lead to
war 45% of the country are Russians
Crimea had been a main Russian naval
port for 300 years and was given away by
krishn one drunken night when Russia and
the Ukraine were both members of the
USSR eastern Ukraine where the Russian
people live demands autonomy from Kiev
Ukrainian nationalism won't allow it cue
massive violence and bloodshed joining
us now is top author writer and
broadcaster of the first rank Neil Clark
Neil you've been writing and
very powerfully on these subjects uh but
nobody's listening much in Britain uh
the narrative is the Russians are the
bad guys in uh Ukraine how has that come
to pass and what level of of effort is
required by the rulers in Britain to
cover up the actual truth of this story
it's amazing really George it's beyond
George Orwell I think we could call it
orwellian but it goes way beyond that
because we had a lot of talk haven't we
in the media about the rise of the far
right in Europe we talk about Leen in
France we talk about farri groups in
Hungary and elsewhere and yet in Ukraine
uh just in 2014 you had a legal kudeta
against a Democratic elected government
of during which the at the Forefront of
that coup were far right neo-nazis they
were The Cutting Edge without the
violence of the far right Hitler
saluting hit collaborators yeah and so
we have this sort of slur of calling
people racists and fascists today which
has been a sort of standard technique to
silence people of of the genuine left
has being used by the fake left against
genuine socialists and yet in Ukraine
we've got real hardcore genuine Nazis
and neo-nazis marching through the
streets as and as I said helping to
topple a democratically elected
government in
2014 and and the so-called liberal left
turned a massive Blind Eye to it all it
didn't happen it wasn't there and uh
today we've still got the same problem
of ultra nationalists in in the Ukraine
there's actually a state of emergency
that's just been declared a state of
energy emergency because Ultra
nationalists are blockading uh coal uh
uh uh transfers from from the east from
the donbass to the rest of Ukraine uh
because they don't want the pareno
government to be having anything to do
with the so-call rebels in the East so
the the fact is is that uh that that
regime change up that coup wouldn't have
taken place without the far right
without the Neo nationalists and uh Nazi
uh support Nazi sympathizers and yet as
as you said in Britain and elsewhere in
the west we pretended not to see it the
coup was clearly I mean organized might
be might be putting it too highly but it
was certainly partly organized by by
NATO governments by the American
ambassador by by John McCain by European
ministers who were in Ukraine marching
yeah for the downfall of a another
government y
we're we we're complicit in all of this
oh absolutely and I think uh $100
million was earmarked really for for the
regime change operation for America and
uh a key player in all of this was
Victoria nuland at the US state
department and she she's a
neoconservative her husband is Robert
Kagan who was one of the notorious uh uh
pushers of the Iraq War so you've got
neocon fingerprints on this operation
all the way through and uh you know
you've got people like John McCain as
you just mentioned he went out there to
Kev and and he dined with one of the
most notorious far-right leaders in
Ukraine someone who talked about uh
Menace of Jewish bolshevism in the past
yes anti-semitic comments like that
which you know if you'd had a leftist or
a socialist politician dining or sharing
a platform with somebody who'd made
those comments and of course that would
be totally beyond the pale and and
siding with fascists and they would be
completely black B but that's not the
case with John McCain and the liberal
left too so uh really is quite amazing
that that this is happening here in
Europe happened in 2014 and it's still
going on it's still going on we've got
uh a state of emergency we've got a
state of War uh the donbass is under
massive Ukrainian military
bombardment uh civilian areas uh people
civilians old ladies lying dead in the
street and so on yeah we can hardly get
that uh on the news and when we do it's
through the opposite uh prison it's
Russian aggression it was always going
to yes it was always going to lead to
this wasn't it once they overthrew the
government yeah burned the parliament
this the third Act was to
delegitimize the Russian language in the
state and to
effectively uh make enemies of at least
40% maybe 45% of their own people
where's it all going to end well
absolutely I think it was all deliberate
I think that if you top all the previous
government which had tried to steer a
balanced course it was a claimed to be a
pro-russian government it wasn't
particularly Pro Russian it was trying
to balance the the the the the political
divisions in the country and Tred to
represent them and uh it was obvious
that when when that government was
forcibly toppled and there were the uh
the uh discrimination against the
Russian language that the predominantly
Russian minorities in the east of the
country would want to have want to
separate and the crime of course the
people voted to do that and that of
course is is used the referendum they
had in Crimea to rejoin Russia don't
forget Crimea been part of Russia from
1783 until 1954 you know the Democratic
referendum there was taken as a sign of
Russian aggression and Russian invasion
yeah and I think we got to link this in
with Syria too George because I think
there was a a sort of element of wanting
to punish Russia by the neocons in in
the US state department for the way that
uh Russia had blocked regime change
plans in Syria Assad was meant to have
gone in 2013 or by 2013 the Russians as
we know and the Chinese blocked un
resolutions which would have uh given
the cover for US military action against
the directly against thead government
The Narrative that we're hearing on
Ukraine the dominant narrative is false
it's completely the other way around the
aggression was from NATO and from the US
and from the EU and uh we're in very
dangerous Waters here because uh the the
real hardcore Hawks really would I think
welcome or want a a war with Russia I
think it's they would they would risk
what they would think be a small scale
war with Russia over this and of course
this I don't think Russia does small
scale war no but this is the the
Viewpoint of a few of these Fanatics
they're saying look look well McCain
called this week for uh lethal defensive
Aid to uh the Ukrainian government and
more still more I don't know how they
could find more but still more sanctions
uh against Russia and he's now embraced
of course uh by most of the Democrat
part there's been a fusion of the
Republican neocon Hawks and the
Democratic party and the liberal media
establishment y against Trump and so
you've got um McCain with his War talk
being effectively cheered and echoed by
the likes of Michael Moore Michael Mo
absolutely Michael Moore who made that
wonderful film far 911 when he was
lambasting the bush era neocons he's now
lining up with the very same Bush era
neocons to lambar Trump and of course he
said this week to Trump be gone you
Russian traitor yes it's incredible
isn't it he's in form mccarthyite mode
isn't he and it's really tragic to see
someone like him who made such good
films you know 10 15 years ago now
lining up with the most reactionary
aggressive far-right figures in American
politics and Russia's not going to back
sorry no just thinking that how do they
think that the American know the normal
population even care you know about all
this had going on the Russ you know the
Russian aggression in speak of little
else but the Don Bass Down in Poria yeah
yeah well of course it's a massive
distraction isn't it because of course
and same is here because the russophobia
that's been pushed by the British
government only you know two weeks ago
had Michael Fallon the defense minister
going up to his almaat in in St Andrew's
University in Scotland terrible speech
he made about the Russian aggression and
Russia invading Ukraine yeah and of
course the and the students were placed
on their best behavior they weren't
allowed to
respond even if any of them had been uh
of a of a mind to yeah and the British
government of course Georgia has been
the British have been out there to try
to convince Donald Trump not to go soft
on Russia so the British are playing a
very pentious role in all of this well
the the Russians are not going to back
down so what's next do you think the the
World Cup is the next uh the next
propaganda offensive it is the next and
I think we've already seen BBC programs
coming on about Russian Football
Hooligans there was one coming on uh uh
um tonight or last week I think going to
be repeated uh and uh this is going to
build up as my prediction is going to
build up over the year because the last
thing are they destroying public
property like the English Hooligans
exactly yes well I mean obviously there
Hooligans in Russia there football
Hooligans like there is everywhere but
this is now it's kind of Relentless
isn't it Geor it's like it's of
247 uh negative news about Russia and
Putin we we we hear we and we had talk
about fake news of course the biggest
example of fake news in the last 12
months has been the story of Russian
Hack in the American hack into the which
has unproven the hack and wasn't Russian
yeah with all respect to my Dutch wife
we're told in the newspapers this week
the Russians are trying to fix the
Netherlands general
election of course they got the German
one to do and they got the French
defense Germany okay France okay but why
would Russia bother trying to rig the
Netherlands election it's an elector of
2.6 million voters something like well
Putin he's all over the place isn't he
he's interfering left right and Center
he's so it really I mean he's laughable
in a way we can laugh about it yeah you
laugh or you cry yeah Neil Clark always
a pleasure thanks for joining us on the
spck and now it's your turn to tell us
what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling gy so I
asked will Scotland undergo IND the ref
2 and the Scottish referendum thing
seems to always way caused his bus so
lots of uh response on that and Ashok
for example says when there's debate but
no dates H and Bob Smith Walker says I'm
a big supporter of G but with a
hankering for Indie well first of all
Alex salmon announced the date uh
although Nicholas sturgeon hasn't even
yet decided that there's definitely
going to be a referendum so there seems
to be some sign of tension at the top of
the SNP between the former leader and
the current leader my guess I may be
wrong is that there will not be a second
Independence referendum because I'm
absolutely certain that that they would
lose it and they cannot afford to lose
it they have to keep a strategy of maybe
probably uh going for as long as
possible unless people get uh tired of
that uh look I'm not against
Independence in all circumstances and
I'm in favor of having this second
referendum because I'm sure that I'm
going to win it uh but uh there could be
circumstances I mean if you told me the
Tories were going to be in power in
England
forever well to I'd have to look again
but if you told me Jeremy Corbin has a
chance of being the prime minister of
Britain including Scotland I'd rather
have that better absolutely and that's
all the tweets that we have for today
which alas means that's the the end of
the show but you can stay in touch with
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Russia today it's goodbye for me gri and
from me George Galloway it's been
marvelous
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